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A question about Trichocera regelationis wing pattern
rafael_carbonell	#1 Posted on 26-01-2023 00:10
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 682 Joined: 23.03.06	Have found very different patterns of wing venation of the species Trichocera regelationis (if they are correct)... How is that possible? I mean, in other cases, such a large amount of variation would serve to differentiate distinct species whereas in this case it is assumed to be within-species variability? 1) Wikipedia (https://commons.w...ds_-_4.jpg). R4+5 begins in the middle of r-m. Male specimen. rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [86.9Kb] Edited by rafael_carbonell on 26-01-2023 00:24


rafael_carbonell	#2 Posted on 26-01-2023 00:13
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 682 Joined: 23.03.06	2) Site: spessart-fliegen.de (http://www.spessa...s/6/6.html). R4+5 begins in the anterior part of r-m. Male specimen. rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [103.21Kb] Edited by rafael_carbonell on 26-01-2023 00:18


rafael_carbonell	#3 Posted on 26-01-2023 00:18
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 682 Joined: 23.03.06	3) A personal record (https://www.inatu.../102661239). R4+5 begins in the middle of r-m. Female specimen. rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [75.92Kb]


rafael_carbonell	#4 Posted on 26-01-2023 00:20
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 682 Joined: 23.03.06	In all three previous examples the link shows other pictures. Other examples in this site: Female of Trichocera regelationis (https://diptera.i...ost_335849) Limoniidae (NL) =>Trichocera regelationis (https://diptera.i...ost_248996) Trichocera sp. (https://diptera.i...post_91060) What do you think? Edited by rafael_carbonell on 26-01-2023 00:37


Paul Beuk	#5 Posted on 26-01-2023 16:29
Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04	There is variation in the relative location of the base of r-m on R₄₊₅. What concerns me more about your specimen is the very indistinct clouding at r-m and the very deep fork in M₁₊₂, which make me think you may not have T. regelationis at all... Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info


rafael_carbonell	#6 Posted on 26-01-2023 17:29
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 682 Joined: 23.03.06	Paul, you are right, The fork of M1 & 2 veins is very long. The specimen was identified by Ewa Kozakiewicz looking at genitalia (follow link) but I will comment her that. I wish I could take some barcodes of this specimens to get clear what they are. Best, Rafael Edited by rafael_carbonell on 26-01-2023 22:33


Andrius	#7 Posted on 26-01-2023 22:28
Member Location: Lithuania Posts: 315 Joined: 27.01.05	Your specimen doesn't fit the "ideal" T.regelationis and I also have some doubts about the species, also after looking at the other photographs you posted on iNaturalist. In general wing venation in T.regelationis could be rather variable, and the clouding at r-m might be bleak as well, although usually it is visible rather well. Ewa Krzeminska thinks it is T.regelationis, but I am more cautious and would leave it with a question mark. Preparation of a genital fork could help to decide. -- Andrius


rafael_carbonell	#8 Posted on 26-01-2023 22:42
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 682 Joined: 23.03.06	Thanks Andrius, I will prepare the genital fork with the method explained in Krzeminska 2021. Meanwhile, could you take a look at this possible female T.annulata? : https://diptera.i..._id=108782 Edited by rafael_carbonell on 26-01-2023 22:42