Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Quiz: Thaumaleidae: Thaumalea
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 06-08-2008 11:00
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
What are the family and the genus? The image is rather poor in quality and some of the key characters that would let you run it through the key are not visible. So, it is for those who know it, can tell where it belongs by intuition or found an image that sufficiently resemble this picture. I hope to get better pictures soon and the whole name as well. Paul Beuk attached the following image:  [48.77Kb] Edited by Paul Beuk on 03-10-2008 08:22 Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| xylo |
Posted on 06-08-2008 12:04
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 Member Location: Posts: 139 Joined: 21.08.04 |
If you have not seen this already once.... then it is quite tricky..... I would bet on "Solitary Midge" (Thaumaleidae).... most probable species of Thaumalea..... so long, xylo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 06-08-2008 12:43
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Spot on. I will not ask you to give its species name. 
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| xylo |
Posted on 06-08-2008 13:11
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Member Location: Posts: 139 Joined: 21.08.04 |
Well, I can not id it from this photo  Moreover it is a female... Males are somewhat more distinctive in their genital......R?diger Wagner treated the European fauna of thaumaleids (German only): WAGNER, R. (2002): Insecta: Diptera: Thaumaleidae. ? In: SCHWOERBEL, J. & ZWICK, P. (eds.): S??wasserfauna von Mitteleuropa 21 (10+11): 41?110; Heidelberg-Berlin: Spektrum. However, if collected from lowland my guess would be Thaumalea testacea..... Cheers, xylo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 06-08-2008 15:40
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
This specimen is from Greece and measures almost six mm...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| xylo |
Posted on 07-08-2008 07:59
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Member Location: Posts: 139 Joined: 21.08.04 |
Paul, This sounds very interesting.... Greece is more or less a white spot on the distribution map: According to Fauna Europaea there are only three thaumaleid species known (Crete and Cyclades Islands) plus two undescribed species known as females only from Cyprus and Crete. None from Greek mainland so far. Do you have also males? I would be happy examining your hot material under my binocular.... so long, xylo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 07-08-2008 09:21
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
So far two females. I have a pretty good idea which species it is but I need to confirm that using Wagner's key. I don't have that one here yet.  And it is from the Greek main land. 
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| xylo |
Posted on 07-08-2008 15:09
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Member Location: Posts: 139 Joined: 21.08.04 |
So we will read a paper dealing with Greek thaumaleids soon..... If you need the key immediately or other (European/Palaearctic) thaumaleid literature: pm me... I do have nearly everything in file.... Cheers, xylo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 07-08-2008 20:22
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
If you have Wagner's key in pdf, I cannot wait to lay my hand on it.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| xylo |
Posted on 08-08-2008 10:18
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Member Location: Posts: 139 Joined: 21.08.04 |
You have post.... so long, xylo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 08-08-2008 10:31
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Indeed I have. Thx. You will know sooon...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 08-08-2008 15:57
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Hmm, rather complicated. I have difficulty using the key in a proper way because of the confusing use of ventral, basal, distal and 'hinter' (posterior) when it comes to the femal genitalia. Moreover, in many instances alternatives in the key are not illustrated except when it comes to species. So one is obliged to have a look at species illustrations and hope one can see the feature correctly illustrated. The fact that all illustrations are then scattered throughout the publication and sometimes in no logical order in the plates, and that some figure references in the key are incorrect do not help much either. Anyway... One female of about 6 mm does have genitalia which are not illustrated by Wagner. No species name here. The other female, smaller (4.5-5 mm) has genitalia that closest resemble those of T. kykladica but some material for comparisson or a male would be useful to confirm this identification. Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 08-08-2008 18:42
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 Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
I think I remember sorting this out and not having a clue about it at all. Unfortunately I have a lot of unsorted material from Project Kerkini, and because I am now 8000 Euro in debt and with still no sign of future payment I am giving up, today I was offered a nice job teaching English in Saudi Arabia. I do not know what will be done with all the unsorted malaise material. Gordon |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 08-08-2008 22:11
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Sorry to hear that you will be changing jobs on one hand, glad on the other. Hope you will like the climate there (in more than one sense). Try to get the unsorted material shipped to someone who can deal with it. Maybe we will have some vollunteers here? Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| cosmln |
Posted on 08-08-2008 22:21
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 Member Location: Romania Posts: 956 Joined: 18.03.07 |
Paul Beuk wrote: Sorry to hear that you will be changing jobs on one hand, glad on the other. Hope you will like the climate there (in more than one sense). Try to get the unsorted material shipped to someone who can deal with it. Maybe we will have some vollunteers here? if is the case i can be one of the volunteer, but i don't know all family. cosmln |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 08-08-2008 23:12
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
It would be more than just Diptera, I gather...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 09-08-2008 08:47
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Dear Paul and Cosmin etc, Firstly I am still looking for a more satisfactory solution, I have a few days before i have to accept the Saudi job. I had decided, because of the lack of pay, and worse because this has meant no car the complete lack of a social life, and no home hence no garden all of which have added up to several months of depression that I would leave in November or December, there are plenty of teaching jobs about, I have a CELTA as well as my degrees, and I am of course that magic thing a 'Native Speaker', however this job has been offered as starting in Mid September and I have to think about it seriously. The biggest problem might be that I don't actually have enough money to get there and live the first month, but I am working on that too. As to the sorting, some volunteers is a very nice idea, despite all the problems I know this project is of value, but there is quite a bit of material, and yes it would be more than Diptera, of course I expect Cosmin would have no difficulty with the coleoptera, most of which go to Max in the NHM and so are not sorted to family. We will see. I will of course keep everybody posted, and I am grateful for all the help and support that Diptera.info has provided these last 6 months. Gordon |
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| xylo |
Posted on 09-08-2008 13:11
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Member Location: Posts: 139 Joined: 21.08.04 |
Hi all, Though not involved so far in the Kerkini wetland project it would be a pity to loose the collected biological information. The only thing I can offer is to sort out "nematocerous" Diptera and id them on family level. Moreover I can offer secured long term storage in our museum and availability to interested parties. Paul, Yes, female thaumaleids are very difficult, especially having some without distinctive appendages. As already stated by Wagner the key is more than preliminary and many females are still unknown.... Cheers, so long, xylo |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 10-08-2008 08:26
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Thanks Xylo, I will let you know if you offer is likely to be taken up. Would you be able to determine Chaoborids, I believe there are only three species in Europe, but I have found no key to separate them? For today I can say that I have been offered the supposedly part-time job for four months of sorting out fish species from Cormorant pellets, while it would undoubtedly be interesting I am a little worried, as they don't have a full reference collection, that it might end up taking up all my time as I will have to work my way into it. Still it would hopefully allow me to get a lot more of this years material sorted, but as Prof. Malicky the Trichoptera expert has asked me to keep running several of the traps at least until December, I might just end up with a different cupboard full of unsorted material so I will keep everybody's offers of help in mind. Dear Paul, What can I say, I will do me best to find some male Thaumaleids but you know how it goes. Gordon |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 12-09-2008 13:22
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Paul Beuk wrote: The other female, smaller (4.5-5 mm) has genitalia that closest resemble those of T. kykladica but some material for comparisson or a male would be useful to confirm this identification. Found another vial with three females in it from the same locality. As a result I was able to have a better look under different angles and am now quite satisfied that this species is T. bezzii. A species already know from Greece mainland according to the map in Wagner's key. This is not the species in the picture in the first post of this thread.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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