Diptera.info

Posted by Jan Zwaaneveld on 01-09-2006 16:41

I see al lot of these flies lately. At least, they look very alike and I presume they are the same species. The first two pictures show the same fly, the last three pics also have the same individual on them. The second fly was almost double the size of the first. Who can help with the identification?

Thanks in advance!

Posted by Tony Irwin on 01-09-2006 21:23

Top 2 are Phaonia scutellata (I think - can't be absolutely sure), and the lower 3 are Phaonia valida. Both females. P.valida is very common in Norfolk at present - sunning itself on tree trunks and looking very big! :o

Posted by Jan Zwaaneveld on 01-09-2006 22:32

Tony, I forgot to mention that these pictures were taken in the Netherlands, near the town of Leerdam. I suspect the first one cannot be scutellata, at least, I cannot find it on the dutch species list http://www.nederl...?site=nlsr.

Do you have any other suggestions, perhaps?

Posted by Robert Heemskerk on 01-09-2006 22:44

Hello Jan and Tony,

Could fly 1 (the first two pictures) be P. valida too?
I can see many similarities :|

robert heemskerk

Posted by Jan Zwaaneveld on 01-09-2006 23:23

#10

Hi Robert, there was a remarkable size difference between the two, but perhaps that is not unusual. There seem to be a lot of similarities indeed. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the genus is very limited, and I cannot rule out the other 25 or so Phaonia which are on the dutch list :(

Posted by Tony Irwin on 02-09-2006 01:31

#11

Well, I said I wasn't sure - scutellata is rare in Britain, but its European distribution is odd, including Portugal and Norway, so there's no reason why it shouldn't turn up in the Netherlands. On the other hand it may be Phaonia tuguriorum, a fairly common species, but I felt the head proportions were not quite right.
I don't think it's valida or a related species because the cross-veins are heavily infuscated. characters shown by valida include pale first and second antennal segments and third pale at base, and a distinct but slight bend in vein M, which shows well in the first pic of fly2.
Of course, you may have other species in The Netherlands which I don't know about! ;)

Posted by Jan Zwaaneveld on 02-09-2006 09:58

#12

Thanks Tony, this is very helpful, at least I can see now why it isn't valida :)
Maybe Theo could help with fly nr. 1? I'm getting more and more curious about it's id now!