Thread subject: Diptera.info :: Tipula (Savtshenkia) gimmerthali ♀ (cf)

Posted by Elena Regina on 06-09-2025 19:13
#1

Lazio, 2025-IX, TBL 25 mm

i.imgur.com/pl76J5P.jpeg

Edited by Elena Regina on 09-09-2025 15:08

Posted by eklans on 07-09-2025 13:26
#2

Is a dorsal view of the last tergites available? First idea is T. pagana.

Posted by John Carr on 07-09-2025 16:13
#3

eklans wrote:
Is a dorsal view of the last tergites available? First idea is T. pagana.


Aren't the palps too short for Tipula?

Posted by eklans on 07-09-2025 17:05
#4

You are right - thanks John!

Posted by Elena Regina on 07-09-2025 17:23
#5

There it is:

i.imgur.com/Bo5J1La.jpeg
i.imgur.com/GdTc7t6.jpeg
i.imgur.com/LCThS0R.jpeg

Posted by eklans on 08-09-2025 15:37
#6

Grazie per le immagini! It's definitely not T. pagana! The ovipositor looks like these of subgenus Lunatipula (alpina etc.). The palpus is short but seems to have enough segments. I have no experience with dried specimen, do the segments shrink when dried?
Is the brachyptery caused by a growth defect?

Posted by Elena Regina on 08-09-2025 16:40
#7

There were two live females over a permanent mountain puddle at approx. 1000 m asl. Segments of palpus did not shrink after death; I don't know what caused the brachyptery. Any idea about the species?

Posted by eklans on 08-09-2025 17:48
#8

I respect John's statement about the length of the palpus, though the head looks like Tipula - particularly the "nose" in T. alpina.
But if I concentrate on the ovipositor I've found three similar species for Italy in subgenus Lunatipula:
alpina
graeca
livida
Source: https://ccw.natur...

Posted by eklans on 09-09-2025 12:18
#9

Two live females with same growth defect is quite unlikely...

Maybe I've found your Tipula in Kris Peeters & Pjotr Oosterbroek (2014): Langpootmuggen en aanverwante families van Nederland, België en Luxemburg, Tabel K: Kortfleugelig
Tipula (Savtshenkia) gimmerthali gimmerthali Lackschewitz, 1925

Thorax browngrey to grey, broad evenly coloured midstripe, lateral stripes brown.
Wings short, usually not longer than 2nd tergite...
Species of the mountains (300-2700 m)

5.a. Borststukrug bruingrijs tot grijs met brede gelijkmatig bruin gekleurde
middenstreep en bruine zijstrepen. Vleugel kort, meestal niet verder reikend
dan tweede achterlijfsegment, soms tot vierde; vleugel aan uiteinde
verbreed en afgerond met concentratie van sterk verkorte aders; costa
opvallend verdikt en aan uiteinde met veel haarachtige borstels (fig. K7-9).
Achterlijf bruingrijs, soms met vage bruine middenstreep. Ovipositor goed
ontwikkeld, valve reikt to helft van cercus (fig. K7). Lichaamslengte 11-13
mm.
Tipula gimmerthali (midden)gebergte soort (300-2700 m),
niet bekend van Benelux, 9-10; mannetje: tabel H

Also in https://ccw.natur... with distribution in Italy, too.

Posted by Elena Regina on 09-09-2025 15:39
#10

https://ccw.natur...p?id=16527 https://ccw.natur..._2014e.pdf

Wing venation / length seem to correspond; length of palpus still leaves some doubts. That would be the species, or at least a very similar one (prope/affinis), possibly within the same subgenus. Here you can find a presumably conspecific female, found in 2015 at sea level (cfr. ovipositor in image #2): http://www.entomo...mp;t=64657

ccw.naturalis.nl/documents/Tipula_gimmerthali_gimmerthali_-A-female3.png
i.imgur.com/uR7oN3O.jpeg

Posted by eklans on 10-09-2025 13:51
#11

Thanks for the informative link - the wings of this female resemble the Osterbroek image of T. gimmerthali, I think. Due to the resolution I cannot compare it to the wing of your fly. If it's not the same venation, your cranefly could be indeed the female of the probably Lazio-endemic Tipula (Vestiplex) fragilicornis of which I could not find a reliable image in the web.