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 Bulgarian Asilidae
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| Leif G |
Posted on 07-09-2014 13:47
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Member Location: Posts: 263 Joined: 26.03.11 |
Photographed at Novo Hodzhvo, July 19th. Possible to ID? Leif Leif G attached the following image:  [83.93Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 07-09-2014 14:02
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
wwozeerss!!! can you collect this for me?! Could it be Saropogon or Molobratia? I do not know by sure.. But I would be more inclined to the former genus. Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 07-09-2014 14:02 |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 07-09-2014 19:09
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 Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
And what about Dasypogon? Dark legs and those marks on the abdomen are rather typical. Just thinking... Jorge, I would rule out Molobratia 
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 19:11 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 07-09-2014 19:42
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
indeed, I think Dasypogon is much better. Did you see the strong spur in the apical tibiae?  Feature for Dasypogoninae! So Molobratia and even Saropogon could never be!! |
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| Leif G |
Posted on 07-09-2014 20:02
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Member Location: Posts: 263 Joined: 26.03.11 |
Thanks for comments. Unfortunately, this is the only shot I got before it flew away. Leif |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 07-09-2014 21:16
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Yes, I saw the nice spur That's why I ruled out Molobratia (which looks different too). But also Saropogon shows the Dasypogoninae spur although usually not so well. The combination of looks, colour legs and abdominal pattern was what made me think of Dasypogon Leif, one shot and the fly takes off... I suffer from that too often 
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 21:17 |
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| Quaedfliegh |
Posted on 07-09-2014 22:43
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 Member Location: Tilburg Netherlands Posts: 2207 Joined: 18.05.10 |
Just to comment, both Molobratia and Saropogon belong to the Dasypogoninae and do have a similar spur on front tibiae. On this picture the spurs are clear for Molobratia: http://libellchen.deviantart.com/art/Molobratia-Teutonus-187984979 Molobratia has much thinner and longer legs and has red antennae. In Engel Molobratia is described as Dasypogon teutonus! On this picture. The difference between Dasypogon and Saropogon is that the mystax in Dasypogon almost reaches the antennae and in Saropogon only coveres the lower part of the face. I think we can see that....this is a Saropogon species. Greetings, Reinoud Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/ https://www.nev.nl/diptera/ |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 07-09-2014 22:57
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Reinoud, thanks for all the explanations I see how that works now. And I should keep my ugly mouth shut |
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| Quaedfliegh |
Posted on 08-09-2014 16:24
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Member Location: Tilburg Netherlands Posts: 2207 Joined: 18.05.10 |
I still have some doubts though..: )
Greetings, Reinoud Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/ https://www.nev.nl/diptera/ |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-09-2014 21:58
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
wait... Molobratia is a Stepogoninae... |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 08-09-2014 23:34
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
In Geller-Grimm keys it is treated as Dasypononinae and also in Engel. I guess due to the fact that it has indeed an apical spur in front tibiae as other Dasypogoninae, only that it is rudimentary. In other taxonomyc classifications, it appears in Stenopogoninae. I guess it all depends on the point of view Quaedfliegh wrote: I still have some doubts though..: ) It shouldn't be consolation but it truely conforts me a bit
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 08-09-2014 23:38 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-09-2014 23:45
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
well, int the catalog of Iberian Diptera it appears as Stenopogoninae... I doubt that someone would rely only in the tibial spur for this split. |
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| Quaedfliegh |
Posted on 09-09-2014 02:17
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Member Location: Tilburg Netherlands Posts: 2207 Joined: 18.05.10 |
It appeared in a lot of lists in stenopogoninae (i Always wondered why, there is a reason but not yet clear to me : )) @ Piluca, the spur is far from rudimentary! look at the picture in the link, the spurs are huge : ). At the moment i'm reading Torsten Dikow's phylogeny of the asilidae which is probably the most comprihensive study to date. Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1439609209000087 He places the Molobratiini in the Dasypogoninae as a tribe. Cutting a corner..... The split was made in the past based on the lack of spines on the ovipositor and the shape of sternite 8 by Lehr. See page 103 Dikow. His study shows that Molobratia (Molobratiini as a tribe) is "positioned deeply in the Dasypogoninae". Greetings, Reinoud Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/ https://www.nev.nl/diptera/ |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 11-09-2014 07:41
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Quaedfliegh wrote: @ Piluca, the spur is far from rudimentary! look at the picture in the link, the spurs are huge : ) " Thanks, Reinoud! Saw it now. Definitely it is a proper spur Always learning something! |
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