Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 Tipula (Savtshenkia) gimmerthali ♀ (cf)
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| Elena Regina |
Posted on 06-09-2025 19:13
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Member Location: Posts: 264 Joined: 11.11.15 |
Lazio, 2025-IX, TBL 25 mm
Edited by Elena Regina on 09-09-2025 15:08 Scias characterem non constituere genus, sed genus characterem. |
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| eklans |
Posted on 07-09-2025 13:26
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Member Location: Franconia, Germany Posts: 4144 Joined: 11.11.18 |
Is a dorsal view of the last tergites available? First idea is T. pagana.
Greetings, Eric K |
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| John Carr |
Posted on 07-09-2025 16:13
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 Super Administrator Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 10473 Joined: 22.10.10 |
eklans wrote: Is a dorsal view of the last tergites available? First idea is T. pagana. Aren't the palps too short for Tipula? |
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| eklans |
Posted on 07-09-2025 17:05
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Member Location: Franconia, Germany Posts: 4144 Joined: 11.11.18 |
You are right - thanks John!
Greetings, Eric K |
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| Elena Regina |
Posted on 07-09-2025 17:23
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Member Location: Posts: 264 Joined: 11.11.15 |
There it is:  
Scias characterem non constituere genus, sed genus characterem. |
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| eklans |
Posted on 08-09-2025 15:37
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Member Location: Franconia, Germany Posts: 4144 Joined: 11.11.18 |
Grazie per le immagini! It's definitely not T. pagana! The ovipositor looks like these of subgenus Lunatipula (alpina etc.). The palpus is short but seems to have enough segments. I have no experience with dried specimen, do the segments shrink when dried? Is the brachyptery caused by a growth defect? Greetings, Eric K |
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| Elena Regina |
Posted on 08-09-2025 16:40
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Member Location: Posts: 264 Joined: 11.11.15 |
There were two live females over a permanent mountain puddle at approx. 1000 m asl. Segments of palpus did not shrink after death; I don't know what caused the brachyptery. Any idea about the species?
Scias characterem non constituere genus, sed genus characterem. |
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| eklans |
Posted on 08-09-2025 17:48
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Member Location: Franconia, Germany Posts: 4144 Joined: 11.11.18 |
I respect John's statement about the length of the palpus, though the head looks like Tipula - particularly the "nose" in T. alpina. But if I concentrate on the ovipositor I've found three similar species for Italy in subgenus Lunatipula: alpina graeca livida Source: https://ccw.natur... Greetings, Eric K |
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| eklans |
Posted on 09-09-2025 12:18
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Member Location: Franconia, Germany Posts: 4144 Joined: 11.11.18 |
Two live females with same growth defect is quite unlikely... Maybe I've found your Tipula in Kris Peeters & Pjotr Oosterbroek (2014): Langpootmuggen en aanverwante families van Nederland, België en Luxemburg, Tabel K: Kortfleugelig Tipula (Savtshenkia) gimmerthali gimmerthali Lackschewitz, 1925 Thorax browngrey to grey, broad evenly coloured midstripe, lateral stripes brown. Wings short, usually not longer than 2nd tergite... Species of the mountains (300-2700 m) 5.a. Borststukrug bruingrijs tot grijs met brede gelijkmatig bruin gekleurde middenstreep en bruine zijstrepen. Vleugel kort, meestal niet verder reikend dan tweede achterlijfsegment, soms tot vierde; vleugel aan uiteinde verbreed en afgerond met concentratie van sterk verkorte aders; costa opvallend verdikt en aan uiteinde met veel haarachtige borstels (fig. K7-9). Achterlijf bruingrijs, soms met vage bruine middenstreep. Ovipositor goed ontwikkeld, valve reikt to helft van cercus (fig. K7). Lichaamslengte 11-13 mm. Tipula gimmerthali (midden)gebergte soort (300-2700 m), niet bekend van Benelux, 9-10; mannetje: tabel H Also in https://ccw.natur... with distribution in Italy, too. Greetings, Eric K |
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| Elena Regina |
Posted on 09-09-2025 15:39
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Member Location: Posts: 264 Joined: 11.11.15 |
https://ccw.natur...p?id=16527 https://ccw.natur..._2014e.pdf Wing venation / length seem to correspond; length of palpus still leaves some doubts. That would be the species, or at least a very similar one (prope/affinis), possibly within the same subgenus. Here you can find a presumably conspecific female, found in 2015 at sea level (cfr. ovipositor in image #2): http://www.entomo...mp;t=64657  
Scias characterem non constituere genus, sed genus characterem. |
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