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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 27-05-2007 06:34
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9338 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Andrey Ozerov, Black and me have just come back from 2 days trip in "Central Chernozemny Nat Res". It is 550 km south Moscow and it is a very rare site of undisturbed (never ploughed) wet step with oak forest in low places. Nobody worked with Diptera fauna there so far. Altougether we pined around 1000 of flies. Image: step with Stipa pennata (Stipa joannis) and Salvia nutans. Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 27-05-2007 06:37
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9338 Joined: 24.05.05 |
image
Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [147.68Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 27-05-2007 17:41
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
1000 flies???  you are very crazy.   we are very curious about the most unusual flies over there.  |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 29-05-2007 09:22
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9338 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Unfortunely not as crazy as I wish, final count gave 600 flies only
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 01-06-2007 23:40
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 Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
You need a bigger net! But seriously, unless you run malaise traps it's not easy to hand-catch diptera and be selective about the orders you catch - so it's a pretty good catch for 2 days Any more habitat photos? Looks really intriguing. |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 01-08-2007 00:49
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 Member Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
Sorry about waking an old thread, but I missed it the first time around. 600 flies sound about right in my experience My daily (pinnd) catch when hunting full-time is around 100-150 flies per day if weather co-operates. 100*3*2 = 600 The fact that I am not picky about families helps a lot. But micropinning all those chloropids and (worse) agromyzids takes a lot of time which cancels out some of the gain
Kahis |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 01-08-2007 07:17
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Hehe, why start pinning if you can put them in alcohol. Much less labelling as well. 
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 01-08-2007 08:52
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9338 Joined: 24.05.05 |
put them in alcohol means that someday in future you will have a free time to pin. My experiens show me that such a "sunny future" never exist in reality, so I found that to do everything "here and now" is the best rule for me:D Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 01-08-2007 12:56
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Why would I pin them at all? Material most often is easier to examine in alcohol. The only problem is dusting that in some groups is poorly visible by a quick (but not complete) dry of the specimen solves that problem.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Susan R Walter |
Posted on 01-08-2007 15:13
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 Member Location: Touraine du Sud, central France Posts: 1802 Joined: 14.01.06 |
I thought wet specimens meant problems if they had soft hairs that would get matted, or long hairs which lose their natural aspect ie sit flat and stuck to the body, when in life they would be more upstanding, and quite often the direction a bristle is pointing is an important character. I'm curious because it looks like I might acquire a load of wet specimens from central France - the by product of someone else's beetle surveying using vane traps. Susan |
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| Tony T |
Posted on 01-08-2007 19:52
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 Member Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 662 Joined: 08.02.07 |
I think storing Diptera in alcohol that are intented to be pinned in the future is a bad idea. As Susan said, hairs matt; and oils and fats are likely to dissolve out of the specimen and cause staining of the cuticle. Also the flies become brittle. I collect flies alive individually in small plastic vials. About every 30 mins. if the day is hot (above 25 C) I transfer the vials to a cooler. They will remain alive at 5 C for several days if necessary. Flies are then labelled and placed in a freezer, -19 C, until I have time to process them. Out of curiosity I just took out a 10.5 mm muscid that was collected 7 May 2007. It looks like it was collected yesterday, legs are still flexible. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 01-08-2007 20:04
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9338 Joined: 24.05.05 |
1. Soon I will get material collected by my friend in Siberia, in alcohol. So, I will try how it is. 2. Meanwhile I pin and will pin. May be I'm oldfashioned, may be I'm semiChinese - I like tradition  Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 01-08-2007 20:14
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Susan R Walter wrote: That is what you get when you transfer specimens from alcohol to dry air to be pinned without any treatment. The higher the alcohol percentage, the less effect you will see on ahirs and pollinosity, though you might see shriveling of legs and sinking of eyes in relatively soft species.I thought wet specimens meant problems if they had soft hairs that would get matted, or long hairs which lose their natural aspect ie sit flat and stuck to the body, when in life they would be more upstanding, and quite often the direction a bristle is pointing is an important character. There are at least two ways to prevent significant distortion of specimens in the way you described, though there may be some other changes apparent. First is critical point drying, second is a series of treatments the treat specimens that dry by air temperature using other chemical sthan alcohol, which will leave them in near perfect shape as well (colour may be slightly affected). I will see what I can dig up on papers and if I can put them in the downloads. I'm curious because it looks like I might acquire a load of wet specimens from central France - the by product of someone else's beetle surveying using vane traps. As long as the material remains wet, there should be no problem.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 01-08-2007 20:27
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Member Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
Nikita Vikhrev wrote: 1. Soon I will get material collected by my friend in Siberia, in alcohol. So, I will try how it is. 2. Meanwhile I pin and will pin. May be I'm oldfashioned, may be I'm semiChinese - I like tradition Nikita There are several ways to dry & pin alcohol-stored material. Freeze-drying and vacuum-freezing gives almost perfect results, but it is expensive and time-consuming. As a quick&dirty alternative I have used a acetone bath. Specimens are removed from alcohol, pinned while wet, and then immersed in acetone overnight. The time isn't critical, a few hours is enough for small species and times up to several days cause little apparent harm. Later the flies are removed from the acetone. Ay this time the wings of many smaller flies will fold; resting the wings against some thick paper and carefully moving it will usually open the wings. The paper should not be very absorbent, otherwise it will drain all acetone away before you have time to sort out the wings. There also downsides: acetore-processed specimen are often slightly paler than natural and very brittle. I do not know how well they keep with time; the oldest syrphids processed this way are about 5 years old and they show now long-term harm. A few hours in acetore will also help preserving colours of many semi-transparent yellow diptera like Lauxaniidae, Drosophilidae, Syprhidae. I do this regularly with nearly all yellow species if I have the time. An acetone bath will totally stop the darkening from from many syrphid suffer during drying especially the handsome Chrysotoxum are prone to turn almost black If you are interested in more details, I could prepare a article on this site with photos of the equipment I use for this purpose. EDIT. Oh yes, you need to use fresh acetone. As soon as it turns slightly yellowish from grease, fine hairs will start to stick together when dry and you'll get ugly specimens. Edited by Kahis on 01-08-2007 20:33 Kahis |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 01-08-2007 20:36
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
If you are interested in more details, I could prepare a article on this site with photos of the equipment I use for this purpose. What are you waiting for...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 01-08-2007 20:53
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Member Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
Paul Beuk wrote: If you are interested in more details, I could prepare a article on this site with photos of the equipment I use for this purpose. What are you waiting for... Money. Fame. Respect. Unconditional love. The usual stuff But first I have to catch some demo flies. I'll be back in a few days. Kahis |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 01-08-2007 22:21
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19365 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Kahis wrote: at chance here.Money. Fame. Having recenyly passed the 1000 mark in posts here, you must have it.Respect. See previous.Unconditional love. Just come and get that hug. If you insists I might throw in a couple of kisses as well. The usual stuff You can get that in the grocery shop around the corner. At least, that is where I get mine.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Susan R Walter |
Posted on 02-08-2007 13:41
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Member Location: Touraine du Sud, central France Posts: 1802 Joined: 14.01.06 |
Thanks guys, with a big smoochy kiss to Jere if that's what he needs to get through the day. A useful discussion, and I will certainly try the tip about acetone for yellow diptera. Tony's method is exactly as I used to do, and ideal for me, but unfortunately, my husband did not grow up in a household where dead fauna was habitually kept in the freezer, and last year objected so strongly at the build up of specimens by the end of the season that I had to change tactics. This year I have resorted to freezing specimens to kill them, quickly pinning anything that is really important, and keeping the rest loose in small containers. To be honest, I am not sure what sort of condition the French material is going to turn out to be in, but I had assumed I might need to keep it permanently in alcohol. Edited by Susan R Walter on 02-08-2007 14:47 Susan |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 02-08-2007 15:05
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Kahis wrote: Money. Paul Beuk wrote: at chance here. Is it really possible to get money doing articles for diptera.info?? Kahis wrote: Fame. Respect. Paul Beuk wrote: Having recenyly passed the 1000 mark in posts here, you must have it. I think Jere is famous here. Undoubtely.Kahis wrote:Unconditional love. Paul Beuk wrote: Just come and get that hug. If you insists I might throw in a couple of kisses as well. LOL That's the real LOVE! Then you can slurp a little saliva... lol Kahis wrote:The usual stuff Paul Beuk wrote: You can get that in the grocery shop around the corner. At least, that is where I get mine. LOL or through the net. |
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| caliprobola |
Posted on 02-08-2007 15:52
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Member Location: Belgium Posts: 203 Joined: 24.05.07 |
You can get that in the grocery shop around the corner. At least, that is where I get mine. but Paul lives in the Netherlands you know, that's where all the Belgians get their usual stuff too |
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